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      Dark and Light 4/9 Update - Patch Notes   04/10/2018

      Greetings Adventurers! On Tuesday, 4/10, a patch with our first round of bug fixes and optimizations will be released ~2AM PST. Be sure to check out all of all of the changes made to Dark and Light in the full patch notes below!
        Game Updates Optimized loading screen The loading bar will no longer be hidden when loading is stuck. We felt that optimization updates should also be included in the month of bug fixes/balance updates, and is something that we’re focused on going forward. Removed knowledge restriction on all spells and staffheads.  Adventurers no longer have to know a spell in order to use it. The only two exceptions to this rule are Telekinesis and Firestorm. Those are for Master Wizards only. Description text has been added to all harvestable resources to allow easy recognition. Optimized the visual effects for Rune of Restoration, Rune of Warmth, and Rune of Radiance. Bug Fixes Fixed a bug where Small Soul Suppression Stones were not working on Ice and Fire Imps. Fixed a bug where items placed in the three PvE experience workbenches would disappear after activation. Fixed a bug where the Qinaryss Gustclaw’s body would glitch on death. Fixed a bug where items in player customized inventory folders would disappear upon death. Fixed a issue where players were unable to dance at Bonfires. Fixed a bug where players would run into a collision issue at the entrance of Blackice Peaks cause their Adventurer to float.
Bwicked

Crop Plots eating water and fertilizer way too fast

14 posts in this topic

After trying to make a farm with 6 crops per various kind of seeds, I've realized that I'd need over 100 water reservoirs to catch rain water (if rain/snow is working again) Just so I won't have to deal with filling up the reservoirs by hand every 5 minutes. Crops are super thirsty apparently. I like this server for the boosted rates, but I feel that crop hunger and thirst should be hugely decreased so we can play the game, not micro-manage keeping crops fed. 

Furthermore, crops eat fertilizer way too fast. It's the same thing. Can't craft it fast enough, spoil meat fast enough by clicking that split button, or burn wood fast enough. By the way, there really should be a split all button for meat. Why isn't this a thing yet in DnL? It's a thing in ARK and I know DnL was built on the ARK's modified Unreal engine.

Please decrease crop hunger and thirst or change the default of how hungry and thirsty crops are. In ARK, on default server settings, fertilizer lasts a really long time and it's only really used when a crop is growing from a seed until it's an adult, and then only eats fertilizer and water as a trickle over time. A crop on ARK full of fertilizer would last weeks unless you are constantly pulling from the crops, then maybe a week until you have to add more fertilizer. I can't see why crops have to be so hungry on DnL.

If others feel this should be addressed, please comment and rate so the admins and devs will take notice. Thanks.

Bwicked

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agree on the usage issue. main crops the seem to eat a lot of fert is those that also make cores. 

an additional issue is the ratio of items to make a large fert, you can only put so much  grass in to get it to make more than one, and sometimes  the grass decays to straw and then stops the 2nd/3rd one from making, it should use all the items up if you click make, and then make them, not que them up allowing items in the bin to expire or accidentally get changed, which then screws the que up and you have wait for it to clear itself, which takes time.

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We have adjusted large fertilizer rates in the past, and this feedback is good to hear. I see that you both have addressed how fast fertilizer decreases, and then also the materials to craft the fertilizer itself. What adjustment do you think would best address this issue? 

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4 hours ago, Erebus said:

We have adjusted large fertilizer rates in the past, and this feedback is good to hear. I see that you both have addressed how fast fertilizer decreases, and then also the materials to craft the fertilizer itself. What adjustment do you think would best address this issue? 

Bigger storage in the bin that makes fertilizer, would help with making sure there is enough to grass to go around. Or make the grass decay slower in it.

 

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8 hours ago, Erebus said:

We have adjusted large fertilizer rates in the past, and this feedback is good to hear. I see that you both have addressed how fast fertilizer decreases, and then also the materials to craft the fertilizer itself. What adjustment do you think would best address this issue? 

I understand the mechanic, but personally I think it feels silly that all I have to do is collect 1 seed, then grind fertilizer for the rest of my days to keep that plant.  Seeds tend to be worthless for the most part, since I only need 1, yet there are thousands in the game. Meanwhile, the junk you have to do to make fertilizer is pretty insane. The 'cost' (time) to make it is too high, and it also turns something that should be fun into basically just being a fertilizer monkey. I don't care what kind of farm you have, whether it's an elemental core plot or nothing but shrubs, your day is spent hitting grass and splitting meat to make it rot.  That's it.  It's not interesting or fulfilling.

A possible solution? Make farming some kind of a mini game. Make it so you have to learn about each crop to tend it correctly, perhaps having some RNG now and then where you have to prune some shrubs or get worms out of a garden.  Instead of having me grind the same crap all day (meat, grass, meat, grass), at least let me spend that time feeling like I'm actually farming.  The other solution is to simply make farming useful. It is NEVER worth the money to farm herb/carn feed. Farming shrubs for mystical feed is one of the only decent uses.  I like farming because it looks cool and I can make reset potions, but even those would be easier if i just bought the stuff from a vendor.  You've given us a tedious activity with a reward most people feel is not only lackluster, but worse than if we'd simply vendored some twine and bought the herbs ourself.  Farming should be tricky, interesting, and worthwhile. It is none of those things right now.

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1 hour ago, Squawk said:

 The 'cost' (time) to make it is too high, and it also turns something that should be fun into basically just being a fertilizer monkey. I don't care what kind of farm you have, whether it's an elemental core plot or nothing but shrubs, your day is spent hitting grass and splitting meat to make it rot.  That's it.  It's not interesting or fulfilling.

As long as the fertilizer is made faster then its used up, its not really an issue.

Also, you might want to check again, as 95% of this game, is farming resources to do what you want.

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11 hours ago, Erebus said:

We have adjusted large fertilizer rates in the past, and this feedback is good to hear. I see that you both have addressed how fast fertilizer decreases, and then also the materials to craft the fertilizer itself. What adjustment do you think would best address this issue? 

I would agree that making fertilizer just seems way too time consuming.  Maybe allow any and all vegetative matter to be used not just grass.  Allow hay/straw, flowers, berries, seeds, etc this would be great way to clear up excess stuff and makes sense as its all compostable.  I would also remove the shards requirements, doesn't make sense that we're putting magic shards into fertilizer and its taking up valuable space in an already limited space item.  Add slots inside the compost bin, with all of the ingredients necessary its hard to stack large fertilizer production.  I have 12 compost bins just to try and do it but I'm still running around from one to another to try and even things out.  Fix the treant so our yields are worth the effort.  Right now crops barely grow enough to do anything with and start decaying before you really acquire enough. 

 

Once the treants are fixed how much of a boost can we expect from them, will it improve speed, reduce fertilizer consumption or what and is it scalable with the level of treant or as it levels?   

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13 hours ago, Erebus said:

We have adjusted large fertilizer rates in the past, and this feedback is good to hear. I see that you both have addressed how fast fertilizer decreases, and then also the materials to craft the fertilizer itself. What adjustment do you think would best address this issue? 

@Erebus, and any other admins who may read this;

Lets first address crop thirst.
With only water reservoirs, I can see the crops eat water from those reservoirs in 1 water point increments. At least that's what I've observed. When a crop decreases only slightly, the water reservoir drains those points and it adds up quickly. With 5 water reservoirs and with 37 crops down (only half of the crops I have planned) those 5 reservoirs are drained in about 5 minutes or less. It doesn't leave much time to farm for fertilizer and it seems large fertilizer is best, but takes the most work and resources. I've also discovered (accidentally) how to fill up the water reservoirs by dumping water bottles in them which give 200 water points per water bottle, but consume 1 or less point of water from the water reservoir to fill up. I don't know if this is intended but it has saved my bacon trying to keep the crops hydrated as I don't have to run out to a water source.

I feel that crops shouldn't request water from the water reservoirs until they are down about 50 or 100 water and need to be topped back up. I also feel that water crops thirst (water decay) needs to be dialed back so they drain water slower. In actual farming, you want the crops to be damp, not a kiddie pool of water.

Crop Hunger.
As stated in my original post, the crops are also too hungry. A friend I play with said on the Chaos server, 3 Large Fertilizer lasted him an IRL game day. In Ark on default settings, Fertilizer will last 9 hours until the plant is 'fruiting' and the crop is near the fruit holding capacity. After the crop is at maturity on ark, the crops eat fertilizer at a trickle and will last 6 days 22 hours and 30 minutes with a single Fertilizer. Ark's Fertilizer is 54,000 fertilizer units and is the closest to Dark and Light's Large Fertilizer with 450,000 units. There are other comparisons that you can see when searching ARK's gamepedia wiki for fertilizer. Now, 3 Large Fertilizer would be fine if it took a full 24 hours to get a crop started and mature enough until it's fruiting. On the Master builder server it only took 4-5 hours it seems. I'm not really sure how long it took as I was trying to keep the water reservoirs filled every 5 minutes. So really, 3 Large fertilizer should be enough to get a crop to fruiting on Dark and Light and then the hunger of the crop should decrease once the crop starts reaching its Yield Limit. I didn't notice the crops decreasing their fertilizer usage as they were fruiting. They would run out of Fertilizer in what seemed like only 3-4  hours with a large fertilizer.

I feel that since the rates on the Master Builder server is turned up, maybe the crop hunger and thirst are turned up the wrong way. ARK has a setting for CropDecaySpeedMultiplier and as Dark and Light is built on top of the ARK Unreal Engine, I'd assume this setting could be adjusted on each official server. I think that would be a good temporary fix to just slow down the Crop Decay. Maybe drop the multiplier down to 0.5 instead of 1 or whatever the MasterBuilder servers are using. Then have a team take another look at how Crop Hunger and Thirst are being handled by the game and maybe add code to slow that hunger and thirst even more as the crops become full to their max yield. As crops on Dark and Light hold a verity of items, I'd adjust the crops to slow hunger and thirst when the most likely item in them comes in 5% of their max yield. Lets take the wheat crop for example. When the wheat crop reaches it's max amount of wheat the crop will hold, Hunger and thirst will decrease. But the other things that can grow in the wheat crop will continue to keep growing and also filling up to their yields. Lets say the wheat crop only holds 100 wheat before it's full and won't hold any more wheat. When you reach 25 wheat, the crop should start using less water and fertilizer, when the crop holds 50 wheat, the crop should use even less water and fertilizer, When the crop hits 75 wheat, the crop should be at it's lowest pre-set water and fertilizer usage. The other things in the same crop would continue to grow, but the crop won't be nearly as hungry and thirsty.

This would allow people to set up a huge farm if they wanted. They could server farmers. They may have to start only a couple of crops at a time if they use only the water reservoirs, but eventually as each crop matures and reaches their base item yields, they won't be rushing to keep the water reservoirs full. With a large farm like I'm planning, 6 crops for each kind of seed, I should only have to spend a little time making large fertilizer and check crops every couple of days. Currently, I can't make the large fertilizer fast enough and I've had to run a long ugly pipe to the nearest water source as the rain/snow was broken.

Other notes.
-Crops should have pre-place and rotate option.
-Crops should be able to clip into each other better, it's hard to make a perfect circle as one side of the crop hates being near other crops.
-There should be a square, rectangle, or even circle variation of the crops for variety. I'm not a fan of the pizza shape crop plot.
-When I snap a water reservoir onto a water pipe, I should be able to snap another water pipe straight coming out the other side of the reservoir. Currently it says it's obstructed.
-The sound of the water spilling from water spouts is horrible. Some of the taps don't make noise above crops which is nice, but there are crops that aren't irrigated in a radius and they should be. I've had to drop water spouts directly above certain crops to make them irrigated and sometimes the sound of the water spilling can be heard. It's really bad and I feel there should be an option on to spouts to turn it off. At least until a better sound can be made. Maybe a pleasant water bubbling sound instead. The sharp sound of water splashing on concrete needs to go imo.

-I agree with what Grip said above. The materials needed to make the Large Fertilizer feels like too much and I don't see why crops have to take grass and not straw or flowers. I don't understand the need to use magic shards either. Large fertilizer doesn't seem magical. It doesn't magically produce more yield, or make the crops glow at night like in Avatar, or magically lasts longer. I don't see the logical need of the Magic Shards.
-The charcoal need for the crops is a bit high. I have to have tons of camp fires always going and burning wood. I could do the bonfires but I'd need so many of them, they are huge, and they cause stress on graphics cards due to all the lighting and shading. I wish I could put wood into a forge and tell it to burn all the wood inside to charcoal so it's doing it faster. You'd just have to add a charcoal recipe to the knowledge tree under survival so we can fill a forge with wood and tell it to turn all the wood to charcoal.
-Rotten Meat is also a pain. Clicking split repeatedly makes it easier, but a Split All button really needs to be added.
-I feel the 500 grass is fine but it would be nice if it took straw as the grass does turn to straw eventually and prevents some fertilizer from being made. I agree that compost bin could use more room, or maybe make the compost bin stack grass and straw to 500 and then more inventory slots wouldn't be needed.

Thanks for your time
Sorry for the long reply


Bwicked

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I don't think I've ever read a post as long as Bwicked's before and agreed with everything the writer says but they nailed it on every point!

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I really appreciate all of the well thought out ideas, posts, and logic behind why these mechanics should be changed. I have already sent your suggestions/feedback over to the development team, and instead of trying to consolidate all of the great points that have been made, I have also linked this thread. Discussion on quality of life changes such as this one, and adjustments to mechanics in Dark and Light are very important to us, and assist us during early access. It will take time for us to fully go over each idea, and discuss changes, but I will be keeping logs of our discussions like this one. Thank you again everyone.

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Thanks Erebus, we appreciate you taking the time to read these and keep us updated!

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Yes, Thank you Erebus.

Also thank you to everyone else who has seen this thread already and commented with your input. I'm glad I'm not alone or crazy in thinking, from my observations, that the crops are a bit too needy and require too much micro-managing attention to keep them alive.

If anyone else has suggestions or feedback about the crops system, feel free to keep posting them. The more feedback, the better the devs can address our concerns.

Thank you everyone! <3

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Hello everyone,I hope they will improve agriculture, because I'm already giving up, I've done 20 large fields of agriculture, but given the slow crafting of large bags of fertilizer, and the necessary compounds ... for the moment I only have 4 fields.

I started to grow different flowers. Every day, I add one or two large bags of fertilizer, by cons, adding large bags of fertilizer every day, do we get more flowers ?.

The cooking herbs, it's only been a few days and I only have 92 flowers. At the limit it would be necessary that the herbivorous and carnivorous food that one crafts with the flowers does not perish ....And to the merchant the big bag of fertilizer is 192 "for a bag ..... and in the barrels we get between 1 and 8 gold ....

Thank you.

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If you donate enough gold to the vendor, the price for large fertilizer should drop to 154 gold each. About every week you'll have to donate again, sometimes donating 1 gold will drop the price down again. Once every crop is full of fertilizer, I will make 2-3 runs to town to sell things to vendors for gold, and use that gold for fertilizer. I use the smallest crop that a seed will fit into to save room for more crops in a smaller space. Crops stop growing once the crop is full for its type. Seeds and cores count towards that limit.

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